Team Fortress 2 Mann vs Machine - Spy Guide for mvm_mannworks

It is my opinion, that for the single map's both modes, Mannworks in Man vs Machine, the spy is a superior choice to a scout. In a vacuum, the Spy and Scout have very similar jobs. Both are agile money grabbing whores, and priority target destroyers. If played properly, both are the same. However in Mannworks, which is much more cramped and snaky map than the other two, here the spy excels above the scout in picking priority targets. Groups of robots are larger and more clumped than the other maps making the sapper invaluable, so much so I've found myself zerging the point just for a faster sapper respawn. In the same situation the scout's damage pales in comparison to the sapper's stopping power. However every time I've picked Spy for this map, we've never dropped a wave outside of random bomb carrying scouts getting past. I think my playing the Spy had a large part in this.

Let me start off by saying, Spy is horrible on both Decoy and Coal Town maps. A scout is MUCH better than a Spy on those maps. The speed, pickup range and lack of heavy uber bots make the Spy a poor choice here. Mannworks however is the Spies play ground. The map is layed out in such a way that maneuvering between sniper points and the main groups is easy. The drop off cliffs are easy to stand behind and get a solid sapper off, and most importantly its easy to disguise block and create a clump of robots for a large sapper near the end. Since both missions are long and their success not dictated purely on getting A+ money pick ups, the scout tends to be weaker overall here. This is amplified greatly on the final mission, endurance.

I spent the better part of yesterday arguing with Hou-long heavies, backburner pyros and Fan o War scouts about how Spy was better than scout for the Mannworks map. Short of making a video (coming soon (tm)), I decided to write a litte bit about the Spy on this map, how to play it, and why its good in order to dispel some beliefs that the spy is a bad choice.

The spy is not for everyone. Most players aren't solid enough to properly play the Spy in Mann up missions. The misconception of the spy is well deserved. It takes a completely different mind set to play the spy. Most of the time you're off solo killing groups of robots while your teammates frantically try to kill giant deflector heavies. Your priority targets are wildly different than say a heavy or soldier.

Imagine a map with no uber medics, bots randomly stop moving and shooting, and the overall number of bots reduced. This is what a Spy does.

The Spies Job
The Spy has three jobs, and two jobs alone. Sap large groups of robots making it easy for your teammates to slaughter them or for you to chain stab them. Second, take out uber bots. Mannworks has a large number of Uber bots for easy picking. The third job is, since you effectivly replace the scout is to pick up the money.
Outside of these three jobs, you can spy check or more importantly take out/distract snipers. If priority targets show up, your job is to drop everything and deal with them.


Loadouts:
Knives

• Butterfly Knife (Stock): This is an excellent choice, and the one I choose.
• Conniver's Kunai: Not a bad option for the Invasion Scenario, but horrible on the Endurance due to the high number of Pyros. You tend to die too quickly for the health bonus to be good.
• Spy-Cicle: Another good choice if you plan on only sapping. The loss of your primary weapon is a huge disadvantage here, as you'll be unable to chain stab a group of robots if its down. 
• Your Eternal Reward: Sadly this weapon is the worst of your selections. The bots will constantly look at you if you aren't disguised and you'll be unable to get a backstab off unless they're distracted by your teammates. This isn't the goal of the Spy and this weapon should be ignored.

Pistols:

• Enforcer: Your best choice. The damage output for Razorback snipers/Tanks is well worth it. 
• Stock Revolver/L'etranger: Non-optimal choices when the Enforcer exists. Your job is not to be at a far taking pot shots to refill your invis meter, and the stock revolver is outclassed in every way by the enforcer.
• Ambassador: Unless you can headshot 90%+ of the time, the Ambassador is a bad choice. There is only one wave (during Endurance) where razorbacks come into play, and the Enforcer two shots them. Also due to the massive lag on valve servers, headshotting snipers, even at close range is next to impossible. 
• Diamondback: Truth be told, I've never used it in Mann vs Machine. If it gives crits based on bots sapped, they its FREAKING INSANE. If not, its just a Revolver that sounds odd.

Watches:

• Dead Ringer: Your only choice here, as illustrated below. The damage reduction when DRing is whats key. Plus the bots don't really spy check, so no reason to not go Dead ringer.
• Invis Watch/Cloak and Dagger: If you run away from the bots while undisguised and activate either your Dead ringer or Invis watch they will still track and shoot you for a small period of time. Since you lack the damage resistance of the Dead Ringer they will kill you every time. This fact alone makes these two watches non-choices.

In short, Enforcer, Stock Knife, Dead Ringer is the best choice.

Upgrades:

The following upgrades are the only ones you need. Everything else is nice, but it detracts from your true purpose. Ordered for importance. 

• Sapper: All 3 levels. Should go without saying as to why the sapper is the most important upgrade and should be first, but this is your #1 upgrade. Get it to 3 before moving on.
• Knife Attack Speed: I like a minimum of 1, but 4 is obviously best. You need the attack speed to chain stab large groups of bots/medics quickly. Leaving the default speed will sometimes make you miss a uber medic or a couple of demomen in a group. I typically get 1-2 in this then move on to...
• Movement Speed: Since you're now a cocky scout, movement speed helps pick up the money. Mostly its there to let you catch up to groups of bots, or chase down snipers more easily. It also allows you to outrun annoying pyro bots who still chase you while DRing and still on fire. Even 1 point in this will increase your lifespan  a LOT.

Once these 3 upgrades are maxed, you're done. You don't need any other upgrades. So what to do with the rest of the money you may ask? Its easy. Uber Canteens and respawn buybacks. Thats it. 

Some may ask why save for buybacks when you can get resistances. I could go into the economics of the cost of buybacks vs 25% resistance to a single damage type, which is about 3-5 buybacks per point. However with the Sapper's long recharge time, and when bots are swarming your spawn, the buybacks turn into "instant sapper" recharge canteens. Several times has this been the difference between winning a round and losing it. Outside of dire situations, large groups of pyros/scouts on this level tend to trap you while DRing and just slaughter you. No amount of jump height will help in these situations, so its better to just die and respawn instantly. 

Just remember, you have a lot of money to do this with.

Quick upgrade strategy

1. Sapper 1-3
2. Attack speed 1
3. Movement speed 1
4. Attack Speed 2
5. Attack Speed 3
6. Movement Speed 2
7. Movement Speed 3
8. Attack Speed 4

(Get uber canteens as needed)

Strategy:

Machine Massacre (invasion)

The first few waves you're pretty weak and not very useful. Use these rounds to prove yourself to your team by mercilessly slaughtering hordes of bots. Once they realize you aren't horrible they'll be much more receptive to you as a spy. I've even received "Wow you're the best spy I've ever seen!" a couple of times. Make your sappers land perfectly and those people will convert.
A quick anecdote here, in the 7 times i've played this mission as a spy, I've been the top scorer 6 of those times. The 7th I was beaten by the heavy who used all crit canteens by a single point and had a great kritz medic hugging him. Sure score means nothing in MvM, but consider this, each point is a bot killed. (only kills count, no bonus points count for your score in MvM) Since each point is a kill, I've killed the most bots, theoretically making me the 'best' player on the team. It is however a team effort, I'm just using this bit of information as an example to why the spy is an excellent choice.

1. Wave 1: Soldiers and Pyros. Try to stay away from the pyros and sap the large groups of soldiers and chain stab them. The groups are spread out enough and the bots close enough when they drop its easy to do this. If you can, sap the pyros and chain them as well. This should be a breeze. Don't forget to pick up every bit of money that drops.
2. Wave 2: People still in disblief will be astonished when you destroy the first group of 6 heavies in a few seconds. Once the ubers show up, focus on sapping the first heavy/medic combo. They alternate sides, so once you kill the first group disguise quickly (bind a close key to lastdisguise, i use F) and run over to the other side and stab the medic letting your teammates kill the heavy.
   Be stingy with your sapper until they start to drop 2 at a time and get all 4 bots in one go. If all goes well, this should be a very easy wave.
3. Wave 3: The bonk scouts. On the first wave, stand further back from the wall, a bit past the rock and wait for their bonk to wear off and sap them. I've gotten all 20 sapped in one go here with a pyro airblasting the first groups together. Let your team slaughter them and prepared for the next section.
   Pyros come down first, then the deflector heavy. You can either focus on sapping the pyros, or sap the big guy slowing him down. Either is good, I tend to play with the pyros and wait for scout groups to slaughter while my team deals with the heavy.
4. Wave 4: The tank round. This is where you're most useless, and at the same time most useful. Ignore the tanks, focus on the support. The bot groups are staggered and small, so the sapper is pretty useless. Stay near the pathway choke points and matador stab the pyros and run away. Once the snipers spawn, go after them exclusively. They're rated at expert and will slaughter your teammates if you don't kill them quickly.
   You can add damage to the tank near the start and the end if you're feeling sassy enough. Truth be told, the damage you add is too minor to notice, but go for it if you have nothing better to do.
5. Wave 5: Another easy wave to sap and stab. The heavies' AI is bad about turning away from you, you dont even need to be disguised to really chain stab them. Focus on the soldier groups, opting for the 3-4 in back instead of the one in front.
   Make sure when buff soldiers spawn to obliterate them as soon as possible. They spawn so closely together this shouldn't be an issue. 
6. Wave 6: Soldier/Uber wave. OOoooo my favorite wave. At this point you should be either maxed out on upgrades, including your canteen. Make sure to tell your teammates to NOT SHOOT until you've dealt with the medics. Uber canteens will be used a plenty here, as the soldiers will destroy you if they aren't distracted. If they look at you, hit the uber canteen right away. Better to be safe than dead here.
   Stay back, ignore the minor groups and just kill the medics.
7. Wave 7: Another tank round. It sucks to sit back and do nothing to the tanks, I know. But just hang around up front and take out the support when it spawns. It should be no issue for you.
   Next part is the Deflector/Uber Medics. Just sap/uber kill those medics and let your teammates kill the giants.
   Don't forget to spy check around this time...
   On the final section of tanks, you should have a ton of money saved up, I average around $1200. Use this money to upgrade your enforcer's attack speed and clip size and jump on those tanks. Any decent group of teammates will obliterate the tanks regardless, but since you have nothing else to do, might as well join in the fun. Plus, a fast firing, high clip enforcer is fun to play with =)

Thats it. Sounds simple, but just remember your teammates are doing the "heavy" lifting with the big bots, but you're severely lightening their load, to the point they may not even notice. As long as you sap/kill the important targets, (Medics, large groups of scouts, buff soldiers and snipers) your team should have no problems with the rest of it. Try not to die, but if you do, just buy back in as quick as possible and get back out there. Just think of it as a free sapper respawn button.

Mech Mutilation (Endurance)

After having a civil discussion with a good friend of mine (seriously, it was civil, no yelling) the spy is about equal to a scout here. The sections where a spy is undoubtedly better than a scout are far and few between. The staggered pyro spawns are a true pain in the ass for the spy as well. However I still stand by the uber medic killing as the defining point of the spy. Having played with both a scout and a spy on this mission, I tend to see fewer 'close calls' with a spy than a scout here. Since there are only three waves, money is less of an issue, since the most you can lose is only $200, which is nothing really. 

As a spy here, be ready to die, a lot. The pyros are a true pain here since there are so many, and not close enough to sap all of them. Pay careful attention to close range allies as well. Demoknights and Pyros can get you killed if they move between you and a robot pyro. Be cautious here.
Since you begin with $1000, get 2 Sapper upgrades and a movement speed or attack speed upgrade. The latter is a personal choice.

1. Wave 1: The worst wave for you. Everything is staggered, and pyro bots are everywhere. Instead of chain stabbing everything, focus on sapping groups of robots, small and large both. Since this is your "spy proving wave" so to speak, show them you aren't useless. Help out even though you and I know you'd be better off as a heavy here due to the staggered groups.
2. Wave 2:  Another hard round, but excellent to show off. Robot groups are clumped nicely together and there are snipers a plenty to chase down. The scout groups are choice targets for mass sapping.
   Once your team gets pushed back, hang around the right side outhouse and matador stab passing bots and jummping down into the hole to run away. This serves a double purpose, killing bots and spy checking, since the spies love it down there. Be prepared to zergling yourself on the point if it comes down to that.
   Don't forget to upgrade every once in a while during this wave, by the end you should be maxxed on the 3 upgrades and a few ubers ready for the next wave.
3. Wave 3: And this wave is why you're a spy. Make sure to tell your teammates to NOT SHOOT THE GIANTS OR MEDICS till you say so. Your teammates can screw up your stabs so quickly, you become useless. Communication is key.
   After the initial uber medics are dealt with, hang around the front and sap/stab/shoot stragging pyros and razorback snipers. If you notice your teammates having issues, run back and sap the bomb carrier. It will slow him down enough for them to regroup and take it out.
   The scout groups are a horrible pain, depending on the bot path that round, try to use your body as a blocker to clump them up and sap them. Using a giant for this is the best choice.
   The last section is the tanks. Ignore them at first, and pick off all the stranglers, which aren't many. Let your teammates focus on the tanks.

And there you have it. Be alert, and know the waves and you'll be a great spy on this map. Don't waste your sapper on small groups if you can avoid it, and always keep yourself up front to keep an eye on whats coming up next. Slowly, we can turn the tide of opinion about the spy here. 

Final notes,
Don't use a spy on Decoy or Coal town. Its not a good choice.

and FFS, use a damned mic.

Limited Musings - How to make the best of a weak Pool

As I write this I'm currently playing an M13 Sealed release event. I am right now 2-0 and haven't lost a game. My pool is, shall we say not very good. I've had much better and much worse. This pool however is an excellent tool to show how one can make the best of a bad pool and still win packs.

I ended up going 3-1 with this pool, not too bad.

So heres my pool and final deck selection.

Yes, it is indeed 3 colors with only a single mana fixer. But theres one important thing about my build that many people miss. Only 3 cards have double mana requirements, and all are late game finisher style cards. Everything else is either a beater, card draw or conditional removal with only 1 colored mana requirement.

My curve is low and on the aggressive side. Aven Squire, Attended Knight, Knight of Glory, Arbor Elf, and Elvish Visionaries are my early plays. If I happen to have a Rancor I quickly can go on the offensive. My late game includes the 3 best cards in my pool for these colors. Jace, Memory Adept, Serra Angel (still good after all these years) and Serra Avenger.

So how did I come up with this monstrosity? First I sorted by Rarity as do many of us. I was stunned at the number of red and black rares, 5 in total. Firewing Phoenix and Krenko, Mob Boss are both bombs in their own right. The Xathrid Gorgon can be slow but insane once on the board, and the Shimian Specter is just flat out insane if left unchecked. Who needs random discard when you can get a targeted discard! Thoughsieze every turn? I don't see why not!

So red black it is, or is it... Here are the only playable support cards for red:

1. Mark of Mutiny (Not very good in this limited for some reason, haven't figured out why)
2. Reckless Brute (He turns into a 3 mana removal spell, not bad, but not what I want to be doing)
3. Canyon Minotaur (I'd rather be playing something else, but he'll do)
4. 2x Chandra's Fury (Axing questions is always fun, but without heavy creature support to back it up...)
5. Fire Elemental (Haven't been impressed by the Firey Lady in M13 sealed. Nice, but quickly outclassed)
6. Mindclaw Shaman (Hes insane, probably the best red guy we have.. but living to 5 mana seems tough)

and black's support cards:

• Zombie Goliath (Meh, if I play him its because I have no other choices)
• Bloodhunter Bat (Solid card, I really like this guy in limited)
• Cower in Fear (Its ok... can set up some sick turns but you want to be trading, we dont have enough dudes)
• Harbor Bandit (Hes great!)
• 2x Walking Corpse (A bear is a bear)
• 3x Mind Rot (Could be worth looking into...)
• 2x Tormented Soul (Pretty good, no exalted though)

Neither supports card selection is any good. The concept of 3x Mind rot, Jace, 2x Archaeomancers and the Specter calls to me, and in hind sight I should of run it just to see. But its not where this pool wants to go.

Taking a look at Green we have the following:

• Acidic Slime (always good)
• Primal Huntbeast (Hes pretty sick, especially with rancor. A+ dude in my book)
• 2x Elvish Visionary (replaces itself, what more could you ask)
• Rancor (By far the best card for limited I've found. Its soooooo good)
• Arbor Elf (Mana accel is good)
• 2x Bond Beetle (It may look like a 1/2 for 1, but in this format +1/+1 is pretty huge during creature math)
• 3x Titanic Growth (wow...)
• 2x Plummet (Maindeckable in this format, the times I have I haven't been unhappy)
• Fungal Sprouting (Solid token generation)
• Roaring Primadox (Combos really well with Visionary/Beetle/Slime, and a 4/4 for 4? Wow!)
• Vastwood Gorger (A wurm is a wurm. Almost always playable)

Green is really good, except it lacks one thing. A solid late game. Its early game is really good. Rancor, Primay Huntbeast, Visionaries, Elf, Beetle, but Primadox and Gorger aren't what I consider a solid late game. They can be killed quite easily, and not just from removal spells. Speaking of removal spells, Green has no prey upons, a key component to a green heavy M13 limited deck. Its going in for sure, just needs support.

Looking at Blue:

• Jace, Memory Adept (Best card in limited)
• Wind Drake (Always a solid flyer )
• Unsummon (This format is about big dudes. Unsummon is effectively a timewalk here.)
• Welkin Tern (Hes so good...)
• 2x Archaeomancer (insane in the right deck)

Blue is weak, very weak. But it has Jace, and Jace wins games.

White is pretty solid.

Serra Angel (Still good)
Prized Elephant (Newcomer, 4/4 for 4 and might trample? Sounds good)
Griffin Protector (Evasive beater that can get bigger? Awesome)
2x Divine Verdict (Removal is removal)
Captain's Call (3 1/1s are really good at stalling the game. Always a fan of token makers)
Crusader of Odric (works with Captain's Call, and Attended Knight really well)
Attended Knight (2/2 first strike WITH A GUY? Sold.)
Serra Avenger (Might not look like much, but the fact she lets you play multiple threats on turn 4 is great)
Knight of Glory (Relevant protection, and exalted, what more to ask for? Ok first strike but thats pushing it)
Aven Squire (Was great in Shards, Won me an old extended match and is great now.)
Ajani's Sunstriker (Not the best, but Lifelink is very relevant in this limited format)

So this is what I'm left with. My bombs are in black and red but with no support. Neither pairs well with Blue/White/Green. Green is by far my best color for limited, but lacks a late game. Blue just has Jace and some utility, and white is insane, but without utility.

My first build was White/Blue. Since I don't have very many cards in the two colors I ended up with bad cards, like Divine Favor, Guardian Lions, and Downpour main deck. Looking at it, it didn't seem good against aggressive decks. (RG is possibly the strongest color combination in the format, and it hits hard and fast)

I took a look at White/Black, trying to design some sort of small aggro/hand control deck. It suffered from late game problems since I didn't have much beyond Serra Angel to finish them off. I tried splashing both green and blue, but with so many double mana requirements it just wasn't feasible.  Also it had a low creature count. I've noticed in my years of playing that in Limited, more so sealed than draft, a high creature count tends to win more games, regardless of the format. Sealed tends to have stalled out games (most formats). If you can play more theats than your opponent, you'll end up winning. Its just a thing I noticed.

Next I looked at Green/White. It looks good, but ended up filling it out with some janky cards to make 23 playables. It would of been my build if I was playing at a GP, since consistency always wins over power in those sorts of events. Plus with 3 Titanic Growths I can play the, turn all my dudes sideways into your big guys game. Since this is a release event and I'm still figuring out what can work in the format, I passed for something a little bit more powerful.

Enter Blue/White/Green, aka Bant. It has all my powerful cards. Jace, Angel, Knight, Rancor, Visionaries, Acidic Slime. Instead of telling you how I built it, I'll go with what I cut and why.

Ajani's Sunstriker -  First problem is hes WW to cast. This is a 3 color deck.
Archaeomancer -  Not enough things to recur. I don't want to cast a blank 1/2 for 4 mana.
Downpour - Its good, but I'm not aggressive enough in these colors to make full use of it.
Roaring Primadox - I have game ending 4 drops. He doesn't work well when I'm trying to drop Jace or Angel on turn 5.
Bond Beetle - I sided these and Primadox in one game, but without one, the other becomes weaker.
Fungal Sprouting - I have a better token generator in Captain's call. I've been bit too many times in M13 to always run it.
Plummet - Yes its main deckable, but I have too much going on for conditional removal in this deck.
Vastwood Gorger - If i needed another playable or stronger late game, hes my #1 pick. As such with what I have, hes not going to fit my deck. Since I have 3 colors, mana is an issue, so I'll almost always have things I can't play dude to mana requirements. I don't need yet another thing sitting there waiting for land.

Things I shouldn't of done:
The Ring. I love these things. Theyre all good. This deck is white creature heavy, so it made sense at the time. In actual play however, It always turned into a Plummet or Titanic Growth.

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If I had opened this in a GP, i'd be pissed. Since I'm playing online in a release event, I decided to play with it and see what's possible in this format. I learned a few things:

• People still autoscoop to Jace.
• With this much removal in the format, lots of dudes is still good. (Every color has at least 1 this format)
• Being color screwed still sucks, but much more manageable in M13.
• Unsummon is SO GOOD when they enchant their elderscale wurm 4 times in one turn.
• I wish I had done the Blue/Black Hand Control deck instead.

Overall, a great experience for M13.